Re: Fixed... Big News...NES Light Gun Tests Results...


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Posted by Reg on January 02, 2002 at 09:17:18:

In Reply to: Re: Fixed... Big News...NES Light Gun Tests Results... posted by Howard Casto on 1, 2002 at 8:14 PM:

Hi,

I have not checked the full details of each driver... eventually I will...

Yes I have sended my finbdings here:

http://www.mame.net/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=mamegeneral&Number=61337&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=7#Post61337

But most guys do not believe or want to believe...

May be we need to modify ourselves one
Mame driver to proove that it can work...

Who can give me a hand to acheive this?

I'm new to Mame in the point of view to modify
it's source code...Time can be saved if someone
already play/modifies Mame source

Note:

I think that the only limitation of the gun
is that if someone try to use a monitor, the
refresh rate must be 60 hz because Mame
emulate already the video card of an Arcade
Cabinet and I think that most cabinet have a
refresh rate of 60 Hz...

Note 2: Here is the content of my answer thta I have post in the Mame Forums:

Hi, guys,

I have written the original email...

Mame emulate video arcade card so the blank
signal can be known at any time so the
calculation to determini where the gun is pointed
can be accurate. You are right and It's
clearily written in my email that most Mame guns
are big joystick ... most driver are already
emulating light gun so each driver that uses a
light gun need to be modified
to match the emulated gun and the real one.

I have written also this one (you can read it's
content more easily...

http://www.mame.net/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=mamegeneral&Number=61198&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=7#Post61198

thanks
Reg

: Isn't operation thunderbolt the sequal to operation wolf? If it is then I think they use the same drivers, so both should be supported.

: Btw have you shared your findings with the other mame developers so that the drivers can be properly modified?

: : Hi,

: : I have a bad cold ...I think it going now in my brain! So I'm redoing this post again!

: : Sorry but my list was based on the
: : field Category from MameFE v1.6 with the value Gun...

: : So I have checked Operation Wolf and it seem to emulate a light gun...but for Operation Thunderbolt, I'm not sure...

: : thanks (that's better!)
: : Reg

: : : I apologize if this is a dumb question but two of my favorite gun games are Operation Wolf and Operation Thunderbolt. Those aren't in that list. Is that because the mame drivers for those games don't have any gun support? Or is it because the gun is different in those games and a light gun can't be used?

: : : Just curious. Thanks.
: : : -Tony

: : :
: : : : Hi,

: : : : Here are the results of my tests with a NES Light Gun
: : : : tested with an an oscilloscope:

: : : : P.s I'am new to use an Oscilloscope...

: : : :
: : : : 1. If you cut the wire of a Nes gun you will see the
: : : : following wires (White "+5V", Brown "Ground",
: : : : Blue "Gun out", Purple "Gun trigger").

: : : : 2. To give power to the NES gun and few electronics,
: : : : you need to hool up the gun to these Joystick pins
: : : : (Pin 1 "+5V", Pin 4 "ground for button 1")

: : : : 3. The Gun have been tested with a regular 27 inch
: : : : Color TV.

: : : : 4. The Gun can see a white spot small as a "Dime"
: : : : at 4 feets (may be less than a dime like the size
: : : : of a pen eraser "the ones made of woods").

: : : : 5. The Blue wire of the gun have the following signal
: : : : (if the gun is pointed to a white picture:

: : : :

: : : : /| /|
: : : : / | / | +30 mili volts
: : : : -----/ | -------------/ | --- ...
: : : : | / | /
: : : : | / | / -30 mili volts
: : : : |/ |/

: : : :
: : : : | | ----> 1 micro seconds approximatively

: : : :
: : : : | | ----> 18 micro seconds

: : : : I have overlapped a 60 herts signal over it and it
: : : : and the signal is also 18 micro seconds.
: : : :

: : : : 6. I have amplified the signal with two PNP 2N3906
: : : : and the signal have now this shape:

: : : : -----| |---------------| |-- ...
: : : : | | | |
: : : : | | | | .5 volts
: : : : |______| |______|

: : : :
: : : : | | ----> 1 micro seconds approximatively

: : : :
: : : : | | ----> 18 micro seconds

: : : :
: : : : 7. The idea is to trigger the Switch 4 of the
: : : : Joystick 1 homemame circuit that I have created do
: : : : the following:

: : : : amplifiy the signal of the gun, clean it and
: : : : trig the switch4 of joystick 1,
: : : : will be distributed soon...)

: : : : 8. Why joystick 1 and switch 4, see below
: : : : (previous post)

: : : :
: : : : First here is a list of games that support Guns:

: : : :
: : : : Night Stocker (nstocker) Bally/Sente

: : : : Cheyenne V.1.0 (cheyenne) Exidy
: : : : Chiller V.3.0 (chiller) Exidy
: : : : Clay Pigeon V.2.0 (Claypign) Exidy
: : : : Combat V.3.0 (combat) Exidy
: : : : Crack Shoot V.2.0 (cracksht) Exidy
: : : : CrossBow V.2.0 (crossbow) Exidy
: : : : Hit'n miss V.3.0 (hitnmiss) Exidy
: : : : Hit'n Miss V.2.0 (hitnmis2) Exidy
: : : : Showdown V.3.0 (showdown) Exidy
: : : : Who Dunit V.8.0 (whodunit) Exidy

: : : : Terminator2 JudgmentDay (term2) Midway

: : : : PChoice-10:Duck Hunt (pc_duckh) Nintendo
: : : : PChoice-10:Hogan's Alley(pc_hglaly) Nintendo
: : : : PChoice-10: Wild Gunmen (pc_wgnmn) Nintendo

: : : : Turkey Shoot (tshoot) Williams

: : : : I have seen most pictures of these cabinets and
: : : : most of them have their gun fixed on the cabinet.
: : : : That mean that to move the crosspointer on a target,
: : : : the gun is acting like a big joystick...

: : : : For the trigger Mame already support the Joystick
: : : : button 1 of Player 1,so clicking this button is the
: : : : same as using the trigger of the gun.

: : : : The optics are emulated but not ready to be used as
: : : : is, in Mame without modifying the drivers (like
: : : : Exidy440.c) by example...

: : : : But If someone buy at Ebay a T2 gun by example Mame
: : : : will support it if we hack it with a old joystick for
: : : : the crosshair positionning and use the button 1 of the
: : : : joystick for the gun trigger...

: : : : Mame will work great without the optics...

: : : : Just try a regular joystick to play T2 ot Clay Pigeon
: : : : and you will see...

: : : : If we really want the optics to be implemented, we
: : : : must amplify the output of a Nes Light gun to trigger
: : : : a relay like the one implemented in a CMOS 4066 and
: : : : then trigger button 4 of player 1 of joystick port...

: : : : Why Button 4, because buttons 1,2,3 are used by the
: : : : games list previously...

: : : :
: : : : A light gun is sensing light all the time...

: : : : when the trigger is activated it send a signal to the
: : : : PC to reset their counter and to display a black frame
: : : : with a small white cursor that moves, when the gun
: : : : see the cursor it send a signal to the PC to stop the
: : : : counter and this way the computer know by calculation
: : : : where the gun was pointed...

: : : : So button 4 can be use to tell the computer to
: : : : determine if there was a miss or a hit...

: : : : by modifying the Exidy driver most guns games in Mame
: : : : will work ..

: : : : and apply the same process for Midway, Nintendo and
: : : : Williams...

: : : :
: : : : 9. In conclusion, I think the gun can be attached
: : : : on a homemade base for most games...
: : : : be detached for games like may be
: : : : Duck Hunt of PChoice-10.

: : : : 10. Exidy already implement most of the process to
: : : : make the optics of a light Gun to work..

: : : : Some modifications to the Exidy driver need to
: : : : be done to recognize the switch 4 of Joystick 1
: : : : so Mame can know when the gun see a white cursor.

: : : : Some calculations are already implemented...
: : : : in the Exidy driver...some work need to be done
: : : : to match the real gun and the emulated one...

: : : : bye
: : : : Reg





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